<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1316</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/5/99 1:42:59 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1316<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
TML 1300<BR>
Dragon magazine archive<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
RE: Justice<BR>
RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
Re: Cons On Ice Scenario Idea<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: heavy cavalry<BR>
re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: IBIS<BR>
RE: Nonhuman languages<BR>
RE: heavy cavalry<BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Rob's Extremely-Hasty Ship Design System<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Border Guards <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:51:34 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: TML 1300<BR>
<BR>
It arrived here no problem (which is saying something given my choice of <BR>
ISP).  Check the list archive at ftp.mpgn.com<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 09:03:34 +1300<BR>
From: pbroeder@wave.co.nz<BR>
Subject: Dragon magazine archive<BR>
<BR>
Traveller articles in dragon magazine<BR>
CD 1:<BR>
Strategy of survival, 18<BR>
Asimov cluster, 20<BR>
Traveller navy wants to join you, 25<BR>
Star system generation, 27<BR>
Tesseracts, 27<BR>
Traveller politician, 32<BR>
IBIS: profit and peril, 35<BR>
'Other' options, 35<BR>
More clout for scouts, 35<BR>
Useful skills, 35<BR>
Canard, 43<BR>
Make your own aliens, 51<BR>
Masers and cameras, 51<BR>
Miller milk bottle, 51<BR>
New ideas for old ships, 51<BR>
In defence of computers, 51<BR>
Planet parameters, 51<BR>
Plotting a course for choosy players, 51<BR>
Merchants deserve more, too, 53<BR>
Filling in skills, 55<BR>
Exonidas spaceport, 59<BR>
Translating skitterbugging into traveller, 59<BR>
Robots, 64<BR>
Dwarves in space, 70<BR>
Relief for traveller nobility, 73<BR>
<BR>
CD:2<BR>
Preventing complacency in traveller gaming, 85<BR>
Interstellar athletes, 86<BR>
Luna: a traveller's guide, 87<BR>
'Does anyone here speak aslan', 91<BR>
Antimissiles and roundshot, 95<BR>
Rogues of the galaxy, 97<BR>
Stellar diocese, 101<BR>
Active duty, 102<BR>
Hexes and high guard, 104<BR>
Of nobles and men, 103<BR>
High tech and beyond, 108<BR>
Double helix connection, 109<BR>
Star cops, 113<BR>
Aim and burn, 116<BR>
Space age espionage, 120<BR>
<BR>
I *think* that's all the traveller articles printed in dragon, at least<BR>
according to the index in dragon 112, plus what I can remember off hand.<BR>
<BR>
I've listed them by issue, as the browser sucks badly and it's simpler<BR>
to look up the issue and open the pdf.<BR>
<BR>
note that from about issue 70-something to 112 all the traveller<BR>
articles are in the Ares section so you need to look there first.<BR>
<BR>
And just to reopen the copyright flame war does anyone know what the<BR>
policy on reproducing articles is? Once apon a time it was TSR policy<BR>
allow people to reproduce articles for a friend ( only articles - you<BR>
couldn't copy the whole magazine ) as long as you didn't charge for<BR>
them.<BR>
Does this apply to the CD-rom?<BR>
<BR>
Jonathan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:01:19 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
<BR>
>>From what I understand from 3rd parties, the people who wrote designs for<BR>
>Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium didn't pay much attention to the<BR>
>rules; therefore, some (many?) of the designs are badly flawed.<BR>
<BR>
Regardless of that fact, the highest armor value on the MT chart is 120,<BR>
which translates to something like 32,400 cm of hard steel (I don't have<BR>
the book in front of me, but it's somewhere close). The BBs make use of the<BR>
highest armor value available.<BR>
<BR>
Hugely armored ships don't suffer performance problems in MT because mass<BR>
doesn't figure into manuever drive calculations in the vehicle construction<BR>
system. It was all based on *volume* (as in High Guard). You allocate a<BR>
certain number of manuever drive units per volume tonnage of the ship, and<BR>
you can get 6G acceleration, regardless of whether the ship is a svelt<BR>
fighterboat or a lumbering armored dreadnaught from hell.<BR>
<BR>
So even if they paid attention to the rules the designs would be flawed,<BR>
because the rules themselves were flawed.<BR>
<BR>
Still, your right. It's MegaErrata.<BR>
<BR>
However, I think the ship illos look cool (big fan of Roger Raupp here) --<BR>
for the most part much better than Fighting Ships, IMHO. And there is a<BR>
much wider variety of vessels than in FS. I thought there might be some<BR>
passing interest in GT versions of front-line cap ships therein. And I was<BR>
home sick and bored. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I simply can't wait for GT: Starships. <salivating><BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:17:54 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Justice<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>In our legal system, it should not ever be what a government<BR>
>official *thinks* - it should always be what he can, in the<BR>
>spirit and the letter of the law, *prove*.<BR>
<BR>
	That official may have thought that she/he was acting in<BR>
	the spirit of the law, but your point is well made.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>>	Not to mention monetary worth or race.<BR>
>Either of which, in most situations, will be directly represented <BR>
>by a Traveller social standing. Money, or course, is the simplest<BR>
>way (through spending) for a character to raise social standing.<BR>
>Most character generation systems have allowances to modify social <BR>
>standing by the race of the character involved - for example, the<BR>
>Vargr Charisma system, or the Zhodani mageocracy system.<BR>
<BR>
	I am unfamiliar with the Vargr Charisma and Zhodani<BR>
	mageocracy systems, but I have always figured that a rich<BR>
	character with megacredits can still have low SoS (picture<BR>
	Al Capone).<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, I know that wasn't the "race" you were talking about.<BR>
<BR>
	I keep separate one's SoS and how they are treated in any<BR>
	given situation.  Thus, for example, a high SoS noble native<BR>
	to India in 1935 would have the manners, dress, and attitude<BR>
	of his SoS, but would tend to loose prestige when in Great<BR>
	Britain.<BR>
<BR>
>This has some danger of getting seriously out of hand - some<BR>
>people thought the Rodney King verdict important enough to<BR>
>perform assault, arson and rioting over.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	Quite so.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:20:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >ObTrav: Legal skill may run a poor second to a high Social<BR>
> >Standing score, or other evidence of good governmental<BR>
> >connections.<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Not to mention monetary worth or race.<BR>
<BR>
Don't be ridiculous!  The Traveller Universe is a free-market utopia,<BR>
where racism is PROVABLY inefficent and therefore impossible, and<BR>
therefore unknown.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:31:15 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <BR>
<BR>
> thought:  does anyone know much about the role the <BR>
>Chinese played in WWII?  How much of the Japanese <BR>
>military did they keep busy, compared to<BR>
>the amount fighting everyone else?  If you want a <BR>
>huge military force built on minimal resources, the <BR>
>Chinese might be the people to look at in this<BR>
period.<BR>
<BR>
The Chinese are one of the reasons you didn't grow up<BR>
speaking Japanese down there.  The Communists and the<BR>
Nationalists stopped fighting each other with guns<BR>
(but kept up the propanganda war) and kept a lot of<BR>
Japanese forces occupied that would have been used<BR>
elsewhere.  <BR>
<BR>
(Of course, the Chinese didn't affect the sea war<BR>
directly very much, so you can thank my father (U.S.<BR>
Merchant Marine veteran) and your own for protecting<BR>
Australia from the Japanese invasion.)<BR>
<BR>
>Another thought:  The second bloodiest war in history<BR>
> (after WWII) was the Taiping Rebellion in China in <BR>
>the 19th century.  <BR>
<BR>
The Taiping Rebellion started when secretaries and<BR>
clerks rose up to fight against Chinese rulers who had<BR>
been selling out China to Europe and Japan.  I suspect<BR>
that these typists also wanted to go back to<BR>
calligraphy.  [Sound of hatch slamming.]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:26:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Justice and Criminal vs Civil<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote: <BR>
> <BR>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > >ObTrav: Legal skill may run a poor second to a high Social<BR>
> > >Standing score, or other evidence of good governmental<BR>
> > >connections.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 	Not to mention monetary worth or race.<BR>
> <BR>
> Don't be ridiculous!  The Traveller Universe is a free-market utopia,<BR>
> where racism is PROVABLY inefficent and therefore impossible, and<BR>
> therefore unknown.<BR>
> <BR>
LOL, Kenji-san!  Do you really think humaniti will ever outgrow xenophobia<BR>
completely?  You must have grown up someplace much more accepting than I<BR>
did.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:44:47 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: Cons On Ice Scenario Idea<BR>
<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
<BR>
> "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > PCs come across a STL generation vessel, with several thousand<BR>
> > members of some minor race held in Cold Sleep.  Probably no info<BR>
> > available to translate the linguistics of the computer records, and<BR>
> > everything on board indicates that this is a colony ship of some form<BR>
> > or another.<BR>
> <BR>
> Uh-huh.<BR>
> <BR>
> <montelbam><BR>
> Kiiiiirrrrrrrkkkkkk!!!<BR>
> </montelbam><BR>
> <BR>
> <shatner><BR>
> Kaaaaaahhhhhhnnnnnn!!!<BR>
> </shatner><BR>
<BR>
That thought did race through my mind as I typed that paragraph in.  <BR>
*grin*<BR>
<BR>
Other than that, what could you suggest or expound on?<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
<BR>
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:00:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>Why can't people just learn that history is about <BR>
>FACTS and not "interpretation"?????<BR>
<BR>
That's directly contrary to what I learned as ahistory<BR>
major.  <BR>
<BR>
First, what's the difference?  Where does the fact end<BR>
and the interpretation begin?  <BR>
<BR>
Is it a fact or is it interpretation that the<BR>
Communists had X million men under arms, and the<BR>
Nationalists had Y million?  Choosing where to draw<BR>
the line for defining "under arms" is a question of<BR>
interpretation -- or is it?  What if each political<BR>
entity had its own definition of under arms?  Does<BR>
that make it more of a fact or more interpretation?<BR>
<BR>
Second, facts by themselves don't provide anything<BR>
useful.  Facts are automatically interpreted to form<BR>
an understanding.  If the reporter of the facts does<BR>
not interpret them viva voce, he or she is actually<BR>
interpreting them sub silentio through arrangement and<BR>
presentation -- and the reader is doing the same<BR>
thing.  That's why historians typically state their<BR>
theses first -- "this paper seeks to show that the<BR>
Communists hindered the Japanese more than the<BR>
Nationalists did".  Full disclosure reminds the reader<BR>
read the facts and interpretations critically.<BR>
<BR>
Third, one of the major functions of history is to<BR>
remember what happened; one professor called us<BR>
"society's professional rememberers."  We as humans<BR>
don't remember raw facts, or if we do, we don't<BR>
usually apply them well.  We remember stories.  It<BR>
seems that we're almost hard-wired to do that. <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 13:03:58 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: heavy cavalry<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 05:49:21 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
...<BR>
>I can't comment on "heavy cavalry", since what that means to *me* is<BR>
>knoghts in armor which are obsolete by this time.<BR>
<BR>
  The UK fielded units that they (& other Euro professionals) would <BR>
have called heavy cavalry, although they didn't try body armour like<BR>
the French cuirassiers.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:01:11 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
>Why can't people just learn that history is about <BR>
>FACTS and not "interpretation"?????<BR>
<BR>
That's directly contrary to what I learned as ahistory<BR>
major.  <BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
While I agree that historians must interpret, they must show that their<BR>
interpretation logically and justifiably follows from the facts. There has <BR>
been considerable danger, at least lately in the United States, that<BR>
historians and other social scientists will start with the interpretation and<BR>
*then* start putting the facts together, with predictable results.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Enli Iddukagen, dangerous travelling amatuer archaologist<BR>
from JTAS, more than willing to fight for his shaky theories to the<BR>
last drop of the PC's blood...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:26:11 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
True enough - but if you walk around with a cricket bat over your shoulder<BR>
in the UK (outside of a cricket ground, of course) you could be arrested.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Bruce<BR>
Johnson<BR>
Sent: 03 November 1999 20:36<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The weapons ban in the UK would be considered extreme by many other<BR>
> countries. It is far easier to say what is permitted than what is banned -<BR>
> for instance we are not permitted to carry clubs.<BR>
<BR>
And the difference between a club and a cricket-bat is...? Or have they<BR>
finally outlawed cricket for the evil galaxy-wide-banned habit that it<BR>
is? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:20:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: IBIS<BR>
<BR>
>    I believe it was Imperial Bureau of Internal Security and they were a<BR>
>KGB<BR>
>riff, both secret police and an espionage service.  IMTU, they exist and I<BR>
>use<BR>
>them that way.<BR>
>                                                            Lyle<BR>
<BR>
Yeah..What he said..:)  It's been too many years since I played Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:10:00 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Nonhuman languages<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
I vote for Droyne (Oynprith) *and* Zhodani.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"If the ship is sinking - maybe the rats have a point."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:21:04 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: heavy cavalry<BR>
<BR>
Its late on Friday, I'm catching a cold, and my brain's just melted.  So<BR>
here's some sillyness to brighten your day:<BR>
<BR>
Shadow wrote:<BR>
>Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
...<BR>
>I can't comment on "heavy cavalry", since what that means to *me* is<BR>
>knoghts in armor which are obsolete by this time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Heavy Cavalry = An extremely Well-Fed Militia on horseback.<BR>
<BR>
Not sure what "knoghts in armor" are.<BR>
<BR>
Someone early today  mentioned  "Diplomacy Pirates"  ...  they'll<BR>
steel the words right out'a your mouth!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
... must sleep ...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:43:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>From: "David P. Summers" <BR>
<BR>
[I had written:]<BR>
>>No, I don't see any _guarantee_ of a _rule of law_<BR>
in<BR>
>>the Third Imperium.  I think that the Third Imperium<BR>
>>will try to establish some predictability of result<BR>
>>in order to facilitate interstellar commerce, but <BR>
>>beyond that, due process is just not the controlling<BR>
<BR>
>>concern.<BR>
<BR>
[You responded:]<BR>
>Well, I see it as going beyond _some_<BR>
> predictability.  The impression I get is one where <BR>
>the Imperium likes to codify and keep things <BR>
>consitent.  When someone does something<BR>
>wrong, it is (if it isn't a local matter) presented <BR>
>as having broken a law and there is always reference <BR>
>to some trial or judicial proceeding.  It also is <BR>
>pretty important for trade (central to the Imperium's<BR>
<BR>
>raison d'etre).<BR>
<BR>
How much predictability is possible, given the<BR>
distances involved?  Local Imperial officials have a<BR>
lot of power and discretion.  Only really important<BR>
issues will be addressed at higher levels.  The result<BR>
is that there may be significant differences in<BR>
different regions, which will be tolerated or<BR>
eventually changed.  <BR>
<BR>
>A long distance from a modern view of "innocent until<BR>
<BR>
>proven guilty" but also a long way from arbitrary <BR>
>rule by fiat.<BR>
<BR>
I think we actually agree.  There is some amount of<BR>
arbitrary rule in the Imperium, but it is tempered by<BR>
consideration of the needs of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:28:41 -0600<BR>
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
Subject: Rob's Extremely-Hasty Ship Design System<BR>
<BR>
The last thing we need is another ship design system...<BR>
Or, we need another SDS like we need another hole in our heads...<BR>
Well, I can't help myself.  I like to play with systems.  SO here goes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Rob's DSDS "Dirty Ship Design System"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Rob's Base Assumptions for DSDS:<BR>
<BR>
   1. No calculator necessary!<BR>
   2. If it's less than one order of magnitude off, it's ok.<BR>
   3. Unless otherwise stated or absurd, ignore fractions.<BR>
   4. This is for spaceships only.<BR>
   5. This is most useful for prototyping.<BR>
   6. This is not useful for detailed design.<BR>
   7. This may look similar to CT's system...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
System     Volume            Cost      Power       Crew<BR>
- ---------  ------            --------- ----------- -------------------------<BR>
Hull       hull size         0           0         0<BR>
J-drive    hull/100 per pc   MCr4/dton   0         1 per 10 dtons<BR>
M-drive    hull/100 per G    MCr3/dton  10 MW/dton 1 per 20 dtons<BR>
Turrets    3 dtons                                 1 gunner per turret<BR>
 Laser     "                 MCr1       50 MW<BR>
 Missile * "                 MCr0.1      0<BR>
 Sand    * "                 MCr0.2      0<BR>
Bridge     10 + hull/50      KCr5/dton   0         1 per 20 dtons (round up)<BR>
Power      1 dton per 25 MW  MCr3/dton   0         1 per 10 dtons<BR>
Fuel     **<BR>
Refinery   1dt=10dt per hr   MCr10/dton  0         1 per 10 dtons<BR>
Berths                       MCr0.1/dton 0<BR>
  Pass     4 dton per pass   "                     1 steward per 10 pass.<BR>
  Crew     2 dton per crew+1 "                     1 command per 10 crew<BR>
  Low      1 dton per        "                     1 medic per 10 low berths<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*Ammo      max 15 per appropriate turret<BR>
 Missile   MCr0.1 and up<BR>
 Sand      MCr0.01<BR>
<BR>
** Fuel Volume: 10% hull volume per jump-parsec<BR>
              + 1 dton per 10 MW power (round down)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Example: Scout/Courier/D<BR>
         100 dtons<BR>
         ---------<BR>
Jump-2     2 dtons    MCr 8       0 MW    0 engineers<BR>
Manu-2     2 dtons    MCr 6     -20 MW    0 engineers<BR>
1 laser    3 dtons    MCr 1     -50 MW    1 gunner<BR>
Bridge    12 dtons    MCr 0.6     0 MW    1 bridge crew<BR>
Power      3 dtons    MCr 9     +75 MW    0 engineer<BR>
Fuel      28 dtons<BR>
Passenger  4 dtons    MCr 0.4<BR>
Crew       6 dtons    MCr 0.6<BR>
          --------    -------   ------    --------<BR>
          60 dtons    MCr 25.6   +5 MW    2 crew<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Example: Free Trader/D Beowulf<BR>
         200 dtons<BR>
         ---------<BR>
Jump-2     4 dtons    MCr 16      0 MW    0 engineers<BR>
Manu-1     2 dtons    MCr  6    -20 MW    0 engineers<BR>
2 lasers   6 dtons    MCr  2   -100 MW    2 gunners<BR>
Bridge    14 dtons    MCr  0.7    0 MW    1 bridge crew<BR>
Power      5 dtons    MCr 15   +125 MW    0 engineer<BR>
Fuel      52 dtons<BR>
Refinery   4 dtons    MCr 40<BR>
Passenger 40 dtons    MCr  4              1 steward<BR>
Crew      10 dtons    MCr  1<BR>
         ---------    --------  ------    -------<BR>
         137 dtons    MCr 84.7   +5 MW    4 crew<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Example: Fat Trader/D<BR>
         400 dtons<BR>
         ---------<BR>
Jump-1     4 dtons    MCr 16      0 MW    0<BR>
Manu-1     4 dtons    MCr 12    -40 MW    0<BR>
Bridge    18 dtons    MCr  0.9    0 MW    1 bridge crew<BR>
Power      2 dtons    MCr  6    +50 MW    0<BR>
Fuel      45 dtons<BR>
Refinery   1 dtons    MCr 10<BR>
Pass.    120 dtons    MCr 12              3 stewards<BR>
Crew      16 dtons    MCr  1.6<BR>
Low       30 dtons    MCr  3              3 medics<BR>
         ---------    --------  ------    ------<BR>
         234 dtons    MCr 58.5  +10 MW    7 crew<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:50:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
<BR>
>Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or <BR>
>anywhere else, but there was a murder here in Norway,<BR>
<BR>
>were in the criminal case, the kid (who was charged <BR>
>of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
>when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil<BR>
<BR>
>charges, they were awarded several hundred thousand <BR>
>Norwegian kroner. <BR>
<BR>
Well, you Vikings invented that whole wergild concept<BR>
and brought it to England, and the English brought<BR>
their legal system to America, so, yes, that can<BR>
happen here, and it recently did in that case about<BR>
the Hertz commercial guy who was acquitted of killing<BR>
his ex-wife.<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: A planet with several types of courts might <BR>
>have you aqquited in one, but when the charges are <BR>
>brought before another, with no relations to the <BR>
>first, you pay. Only the lawyers of the world would <BR>
>now which court would be the best for your case. <BR>
<BR>
That's not too far from real world experience. <BR>
Deciding in which court to proceed is often an issue<BR>
for lawyers in the United States.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:37:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards <BR>
<BR>
> At 09:34 PM 11/4/99 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> >In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > courtroom to determine the truth.  As long as the globe showed red,<BR>
> > > you were telling the truth *as you knew it*.  The instant it started<BR>
> > > turning blue, you were in deep kimchee...<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Yeahg, part of every use included asking a set of test questions,<BR>
> >including some that you were supposed to lie in answer to.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >If they globe *didn't* turn red during the lies, you were a pathological<BR>
> >liar and the veridicator couldn't be used on you. But such folks are a<BR>
> >minority. They also tend to be rather careless, so getting other<BR>
> <BR>
> This reminds me of a book I read long ago... The radical conservationists<BR>
> were trying to stop the megacorporations from damaging the environment<BR>
> any more, and this ad copy writer got caught in the middle of it.<BR>
> Apparently, despite the fact of a VERY high law level, some bloke<BR>
> discovered that there were people who would commit crimes because they<BR>
> _enjoy_ being beaten. He would get someone to commit a murder, and the<BR>
> police would beat him to death upon capture, and he would laugh the whole<BR>
> time.<BR>
<BR>
"The Space Merchants", can't recall the author, though...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1316<BR>
***********************************<BR>
<BR>
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".<BR>
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>
"local-traveller":<BR>
<BR>
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>
<BR>
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>
in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>
<BR>
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR>
</XMP></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0f0f0f" BACK="#fffffe" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<BR>
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>
Return-Path: <owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Received: from  rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (rly-yc01.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.33]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v62.15) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:42:59 -0500<BR>
Received: from  lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (v62.10) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:41:57 -0500<BR>
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA30853;<BR>
	Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:39:59 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:39:26 -0500<BR>
Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA30797<BR>
	for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:39:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:39:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
Message-Id: <199911052139.QAA30797@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1316<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>
